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Rob
Support Act

Kazakhstan
445 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  13:37:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I saw this http://www.freeplayenergy.co.uk/products.php?id=27 and it got me thinking.
How much energy do you think we use charging up the battrys for all the radios on site? Would it be possible to centralise all battry charging and do it all from solar power/another renewable source?
Also what else do people think could be switched to renewable power?

Mark
DCSS

United Kingdom
755 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  13:49:31  Show Profile  Visit Mark's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The Theatre Arena at Latitude Festival 2008 was (I believe?) the world’s first fuel cell powered festival stage.

Some info below:

http://www.festivalrepublic.com/news/story.aspx?aid=8fd79330-8696-46ab-b6c7-c92174e53ac1

Could be a possibility for reliable green power.

As far as I’m aware we’re still about 20 years of R&D away from economically viable Hydrogen power for all though...
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Jin
DCSS

United Kingdom
526 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  19:27:53  Show Profile  Visit Jin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I still reckon we are a little way off from the point we can stick some solar panels on our tents and charge a variety of goocrys. However I think Hydrogen power may win against solar for greener energy in the future.

I was really curious about the amount of energy that is consumed by each show on average for just radios alone. I decided to crunch the numbers together for the Motorola CP040 as its my favourite radio and the most common one I saw last year.

The battery is typically 1500 mah @ 7.2v = 10.8 Watts

Energy consumption (kWh) = Power (kW) x Time (hours)

I found that charging these batteries takes approx 3 hours when completely dead.

So, 0.0108 * 3 = 0.0324 kwH per charge per radio

Times the number of radios we have, I have just used DC's approx at Reading which must have been about 20 - 30 radios. *call it 25 as an avergae*

0.0324 * 25 = 0.81 kwh for 25 radios charged from dead to full.

Times by the number of times the radios are charged (manufacturers spec states 12 hours battery life, time on shift @ reading 08 approx 124 hours Wednesday to Monday egress)

124 / 12 = 10.33333 (recurring, number of times a battery would have been charged over the event)

0.81 * 10.333333 = 8.37 KwH of energy consumed in charging batteries for 25 radios in the duration of Reading festival 2008.

Please feel free to correct if anyone spots any mistakes in the calculations. These values are either from manufacturers specs or approximations. Of course the real values will vary.

This doesn't account for batteries that have been left to charge on the dock for longer than 3 hours. Really does make you think doesn't it.

Edited by - Jin on 14/05/2009 19:31:52
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Mark
DCSS

United Kingdom
755 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  19:37:01  Show Profile  Visit Mark's Homepage  Reply with Quote
& I thought I needed to spend more time with the hobbies...

Is interesting though, for those us sad enough to understand all that!
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FC
DCSS Moderator

United Kingdom
244 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  19:41:29  Show Profile  Visit FC's Homepage  Reply with Quote
i'm just hazarding a guess that it says we should be nicer to the planet : )
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Barry Swampy
Walkie-talkie

United Kingdom
68 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  19:41:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
jin, you have lost me,

but then again i have been lost for a long time
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Jin
DCSS

United Kingdom
526 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  19:58:25  Show Profile  Visit Jin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sadly this sort of thing is what I have to do for 4 days a week in order to achieve a piece of paper after 5 years and £35k of debt to say "I can do maths me!".

To charge those 25 radios would cost us £2.18 in electricity costs (in a household).

I think we could be greener by removing charged batteries from the docking station and increasing battery life by using more headsets as we wouldn't need to keep the volume on max.
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Mark
DCSS

United Kingdom
755 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  20:01:43  Show Profile  Visit Mark's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As it's you, £20 and I'll do you a bit of paper that says you can do maths.
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Jin
DCSS

United Kingdom
526 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  20:08:20  Show Profile  Visit Jin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You have yourself a deal!
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Mark
DCSS

United Kingdom
755 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  20:09:48  Show Profile  Visit Mark's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Blast, knew I should have said £25.
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Rob
Support Act

Kazakhstan
445 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  20:12:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In this age of soundbites can we have 8.37 KwH in a consumable term? Ie how meny hours of a lightbulb being on, how meny slices of toast or how far in a gwizz?

*edited to add*
Jin> Thats some formidable Maths myfriend!

Edited by - Rob on 14/05/2009 20:21:12
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Jin
DCSS

United Kingdom
526 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  20:24:04  Show Profile  Visit Jin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks rob, as requested.

100 Watt bulb = 0.1kwh

8.37 / 0.1 = 83.7 hours you could run a 100 watt bulb continuously for.

Toasters on average are 1000 Watts (for 2 slices) they run for approx 2 mins to toast bread (almost wrote "toast" there).

It would take 0.05 for one cycle of toasting, assuming we had a 2 slice toaster we could make 167 pieces of toast with the same amount of energy.


Edited by - Jin on 14/05/2009 20:27:35
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Rob
Support Act

Kazakhstan
445 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  20:31:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ahh, now your talking! Though it means my idea is pretty pointless really, not that much energy used to power all the radios. I wonder how many are on site... Cant be that meny more than 500 surly? And thats only 3,340 slices of toast!
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Jin
DCSS

United Kingdom
526 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  20:37:26  Show Profile  Visit Jin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Rob
thats only 3,340 slices of toast!



Ah but that is probably the two day output of the crew cafe!

Looking at DC alone, we have the laptop constantly hooked to the mains and the spaghetti junction that is the charging table plus the sometimes available hot water urn or various kettles.

It all adds up!

Makes me really appreciate innovation and other crews involved with the generators.

Edited by - Jin on 14/05/2009 20:45:32
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Rob
Support Act

Kazakhstan
445 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  20:58:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah but its not as simple as just saying that that idea would save that much power. To make the idea work all batteries would have to be charged centrally, or maybe in two or 3 central locations. But then they would have to be distributed, this is going to cost some sort of fuel. Similarly getting the solar panels to site, setting them up ect will also cost fuel. The saving of the entombment probably wouldn't be worth the cost of set up.

You have to take into account all stats not just the select few. There was a section in the FR green news a while ago which talked about the best way to travel to site. It plumped for coach then full car then train, but it neglected to take into account that that train would have been running anyway, so being on the train creates much less (what ever your weight, though on the scale of that its negligible) carbon than you being in that full car. Then when you break it down further and think about the saving on congestion, which burns unnecessary fuel, then your getting even more into the realms of the train is better, possibly surpassing the coach. Infact if you only base it on emissions per traveller then a full plane will come out far far above car, coach or train - but of course there are other factors there to consider which outweigh this.

Edited by - Rob on 14/05/2009 21:00:11
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Jin
DCSS

United Kingdom
526 Posts

Posted - 14/05/2009 :  23:44:40  Show Profile  Visit Jin's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well the idea of a central battery point wouldn't work based upon those points you have raised if you factor in the costs as a business to basically employ a delivery team to deliver charged batteries then it would probably cost more to be green than it would mean that most events wouldn't employ it (as at the end of the day it is a business).

Also I am not sure if it is even technically practical, solar energy conversion efficiency is poor last time I checked (which in all fairness was about 4 years ago). I mean it is ideal for those lower powered electronics such as radios or torches but items bigger than that would require a very large solar panel. Especially as the batteries require such a high current and voltage and the effects of light intensity would give such a variable energy output.

I think in terms of going green the best thing we can do as a company is try and reduce our energy consumption. Have kettles instead of water urns (boil the water as we need it). Remove charged batteries from the chargers.

Alternatively maybe we can try and use kinetic energy, install small dynamo generators in the clickers and turnstiles at glasto every click provides enough energy to power the pyramid stage lights for 0.5 secs or something like that .

Fit the supervisors and chaperones tabbards with pedometers that can generate electricity as they walk maybe to charge their radios or torch.

Taking this to a national level of mad scientist, do the same for every roundabout (is that what they are called?) in children's parks in the UK so mum and dad power the street light by spinning little Timmy for 15 minutes.

Run marathons in giant hamster wheels that can generate electricity, solves the issue of traffic jams, road closures etc. Get prisoners to do the same I mean what else do they do with their day?

These are all the greener energy ideas I have pondered about whilst I have had a spare moment. Usually after hearing another person tell me how I will cry in 2025 due to global warming.

If someone would hurry up and invent the perpetual motion machine then we could solve this green energy issue once and for all!

Edited by - Jin on 15/05/2009 00:28:28
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